Western Separation on a Roll: 43% support in Alta.!
From the latest Western standard a poll that supports my own personal straw polling of constituents. It seems the hard core separatis have some more soft separatists on board.
Here's the article
Here's the breakdown of the poll
I bet the separatists out west are just praying that Harper is rejected by Toronto, Ontario and parts east...that will kick the movement into action...there is obviously enough support for a political option.
Vive Le west Libre!!!
posted by W.L. Mackenzie Redux | 11:26 AM
15 Comments:
I know this looks exciting from a Western Separatist point of view.
I don't share that view, although, Lord knows, the West has received short shrift for many years.
What we really need is for our premiers to have some backbone and insist that the confederation work like it is supposed to work, rather than accumulate power in Ottawa. They have capitulated on many fronts over the years, starting with premiers conferences in the Trudeau years when he was wont to give them short shrift.
They actually held the power in the construction of Confederation, but either do not know how or refuse to use it.
Further, taking from the rich to give to the poor is not the way to unite a country. Nor is bi-lingualism. Serious tax cuts along with real and serious reform is , in my view, the way to save this country.
Of course the argument may be that there are not enough in the West, or in the East who actually want to save a country.
After this last session of Parliament it appears that everyone is out for all they can get from those who have it, and run with it. When they aren't twisting that arm they are trying to undermine any and all relevant and responsible reforms that would actually make things more equitable for all.
States rights.
What we need is the US consitution. But that war has already been fought and the losers came here.
I share the view Bunny...and if any of us who are truthful with ourselves and the constitutional deadlock we have, this IS the only way to get reform in federal government...historically open revolt has been the only method the citizenry has left to them to make the ruling elites become responsible...check your history books and see ...it's sad but Canadians are sloww and thick headed where tolerance of inept unaccountable elitist governing class is concerned...we let them screw us to the point where we have to take drastic measures to get POGG re established...Papineau, Mackenzie, Riel, Aberhart, Lougheed...all were refomers and revolutionaries in their delivery.
BTW: I favor a general strike to prompt "reconfederation" ...an attempt to remove regional inequity from confederal association and a democratic reform of federal system...failing that, we separate.
As I read your post today it reminded me of how fraudulently Canada has dealt with Quebec. At the cost of billions, an unhappy population has been kept, just barely, in confederation. Adscam is the natural child of the Liberal fixation of keeping Quebec in. And what's worse, is that the cost of keeping Quebec, equals about the amount that it's cost Alberta to be part of an ungreatful country.
I hope that Albertans are not true Canadians, because true Canadians are known for the "10 minute tantrum". They'll scream and shout, then forget all about it and let the Libs shove another heap down their throats. True Canadians bare their ass for the Libs again and again. It'll be interesting to see what Albertans are made of.
By the way, we've already made a family decision: If Alberta independance looks even remotely close, we are up and moved to Edmonton. Why? Because the day after separation, Alberta will likely be the most covetted place in all of North America to live in, and Albertans will have to slam their borders shut or risk being drowned by desparate Canadians trying to get on board. I'm not willing to take my chances as an immigrant to Alberta, I'd rather already "be there!"
Considering the fact that the population of the entire country of Canada is approximately the same as that of California, IF Alberta did ever separate she'd have the room for twice to three times the entire population of this country.
I simply do not believe that Alberta will separate without B.C.
And with B.C. ( wondering why the libs are targeting BC ridings?) they have a real chance of that threat actually effecting change.
And if it does not effect real change, the actual act of separation would be hailed by our neighbours to the South and they would come a courtin'.
Basically, if yer gonna do it, do it right.
Debris Trail states that he thinks that "Canada has frauduently dealt with Quebec".
As I see things, it is Quebec that has frauduently dealt with Canada.
Upper and Lower Canada being the two entities that actually formed what we know as Canada now, Quebec got more than her fair share of the power in parliament and so did Ontario. As the country developed so did the inequity of Quebec's onesided power in the House.
75 seats for one province. Ontario with what is now 106 seats. All the stragglers that were brought into Confederation have never gotten a fair shake. It is the two bears at the table that gets all the food and the squirrels get the crumbs. No country can stand with these kinds of inequities forever. The rise of separation talk in the West is a result of that once that part of the country began to prosper and gain a larger share of the population.
Ontario's manufacturing sector has suffered and will continue to suffer with their policies of pork barreling and bribery to keep manufacturing companies who would otherwise leave. And may still.
As far as the East , well the maritimes are so used to the public teat they will never vote to separate until they all discover Newfoundlands caches of oil reserves themselves. Otherwise they don't have the wherewithall or the guts to go it alone. They are too used and find it too easy to layabout and collect their cheques. Their premiers just did it again, demanding another cheque be cut from Ottawa to do a bit of a make over on ye olde farm.
Even Ontario is in on the act, demanding from the taxpayers coffers in what appears an attempt to hijack and waylay funds to be diverted to their own pouty McGinty who has been beat up bad by the electorate for RAISING taxes in Ontario and he still can't find enough money to satisfy the political thirst.
When we see such naked greed from the leaders of provinces used to contributing to the coffers more than their share to help those who don't have it ( yeah, right) it is clear that the system has broken down.
There should NEVER be the power to distribute wealth willy nilly to curry political favour. Yet, that is what our country is reduced to being and we stood by and watched it happen. It may be that many of us did not understand what we saw. Even so, it will become crystal clear to all but Pavlov's dog what consequences will be wrought.
Alberta's poll is only the beginning.
Quebec stands out in all of this as being the only one who has actually seen what the layout actually is and took advantage of it. All of the other provinces who have joined confederation since the formation are mere knats on Ontarios skirttails. ( In Quebec eyes) THEY hold the balance of power , and they do. Almost ALL of Canada's premiers has come from Quebec. They defy Supreme Court law to push their own illegal language laws and get away with it.
Any other country would have sent in the troops over that kind of defiance, but not Canada. Canada knows which side her bread is buttered and it is the NO side of a separation vote.
But is it really?
It is in the POLITICIANS interest only to keep Quebec onside for in that currying of favour do THEY keep the balance of power and the rest of the country off guard.
Hence the adscam and the outrageous pork barrelling.
So, if EVEN Quebecers are outraged by Adscam, WHY isn't the rest of this country?
The politicians have made certain that the waters have been muddied and the real , underlying cause of what went on with Adscam is not brought to light. IF they can keep it a QUEBEC problem, they keep the balance of power.
Whe Stephen Harper joined with Gilles Duceppe in their outrage over adscam , I believed that IF English Canada joined in that outrage the libs were toast.
THEY brought in their propaganda guns at all media outlets to make sure English Canada did NOT get it. And that is exactly what they have done. That and rule illegally when they were actually voted out.
So, Quebec plays their cards right and continues to be the power brokers in this country. THEY know well what they are doing. The rest of us knats on Ontario's skirttails don't.
When we stop playing the part and get onside with Harper and the Conservatives, demanding REAL reform and change, THEN we will see who is serious about separating.
I think it will be Quebec.
Any takers?
What was the name of the "Queen" when the "Alberta Act" and the "Saskatchewan Act" were drafted in 1905?
Section 9 of Canada's Constitution Act, 1867 states: "The Executive Government and Authority of and over Canada is hereby declared to continue and be vested in the Queen".
How does "Rupert's Land and the North-western Territory" sound?
let's see: 1905- Wouldn't that have been Edward Vll?-
Your point is well taken about "The Queen" .
I think many of us think that when Trudeau 'brought the constitution home' it meant we were autonomous.
We pledge our allegience to Canada and the flag of Canada and not "the Queen".
Anyone who has either taken the oath of citizenship or attended a ceremony knows that the oath is taken and pledged to "The Queen" .
Unless and until we take responsibility truly for our own country and fight to see to it that equity is for all, ala an American Style Constitution ( yes, the very one the dems in the states are trying systematically to tear apart) and make sure that we have an elected senate we are not going to have the kind of freedom most of us already think we have. Our freedoms are an illusion and one of these days we are all going to have to face that and make it our business to fight for the kind of rights necessary for a true democracy to thrive.
That doesn't happen in separation. That happens when a people band together.
We have to realize that the federal government, this one and past ones, have divided and conquered an entire nation. And they have done it with our money.
Snowbunnie1 - Uhhh the movement has no plans to include BC, or anyone else for that matter. Although, if the whole West wants out, there could be negotiations with respect to a block agreement I suppose. Also there are no plans to become a state either.
The BC assumption is that we need a port. If BC has no desire to negotiate, Seattle and Montana would be more then happy to have the business.
As for the rest of the argument, it's been 30-40 years of pure hell trying to be a part of this country, and enough is enough. If the rest of the country doesn't want to address the democratic deficit, and continue to rape the outer fringes for everything there worth, screw it. We don't need any partners with no ambition to work together for the betterment of the whole.
The general attitude has been to create dependencies all over the nation to advance socialism which will eventually lead to collapse anyway. After all, someone has to do the work, and bring home the bacon. Why should we continue to bust our ass for 12-14 hours a day to support a bunch of elitists out east sitting on there butt that do absolutely nothing but scheme up scams to drain more from the populous?
Rob
Dave:
Alberta was a "holding" of a private company until its GOVERNANCE was ceded to the federal government as a protectorate...so essentially it was a privately exploited crown protectorate until 1905 when it became a ward of the federal government until 1933 when the statutes of Westminster ceded all control over section 92 constitutional ( BNA act) subjects to the local provincial assembly.....until that time, Sask. and Alberta were the only confederal partners that required a final federal sign off on their provincial legislating...the ceded confederal deal cut between Alberta and the feds in 1933-34 sucks...it puts the province at a distinct confederal disadvantage to the original 4 provinces who had a right to provincial vetos via section 94.
Alberta's confederal agreement should be rewritten...possibly before Alberta separates...but after an independence referendum it would give the province more leverage to come back into confederation on its own terms.
I just think the East cares nothing for the concerns of Albertans or British Columbians.
Anonymous seems to think that Alberta would not need a port.
I think he's wrong. No matter how it happened, Alberta and Sask are now in confederation.
As could be seen by Trudeau's wage and price controls, the government in Ottawa and the Eastern provinces ( From Kenora on to the Atlantic) DO NOT THINK of the West in terms of revelance. They think of the wealth of this country as belonging to 'them' and I think we would see that quite clearly IF there were to be a serious threat of any western province separating.
You would not see the angst from the feds or the other provinces.
We would be seen as petulant brats stomping our feet for a larger cut of pie, when in fact it is EXACTLY the opposite that has caused such discontent.
Snowbunnie1 - "Alberta would not need a port."
That's not what I said. If you reread my post you'll see that if BC does not wish to negotiate a port, the US would be more then happy to take up the slack.
Rob
Seattle and Astria will be Albert's ports and the Americans have said they would be more than happy to build a 4-lane super hiway to Alberta to link these ports and also extend the Alaska hiway and rail lines to Alberta. Like I said Alberta is a 4-A credit jurisdiction with unlimited productivity capacity. We are in the driver's seat...we are better off NOT joining the states and staying as a sovereign jurisdiction...let the US woe us for our favors....a free Alberta would be a wonderfil and prosperous nation ....a homeland for the real Canada.
Section 17 of Canada's Constitution Act, 1867 states: "There shall be One Parliament for Canada, consisting of the Queen, an Upper House styled the Senate, and the House of Commons."
In 1905, when the Alberta Act and the Saskatchewan Act were drafted, was Canada's Parliament no longer acting in accordance with Section 17?
In accordance with the Constitution Act, 1867, the Queen ordered and declared that Rupert's Land and the North-Western Territory were admitted into and became part of the Dominion of Canada on July 15, 1870.
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